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Z Bogomilo Černelič o življenju, vsakdanjem, presežnem, zakonu, materinstvu in hvaležnosti

· Pogovori · 7

Z Bogomilo sva se dobili na Zoomu. Najin klepet je trajal dlje, kot sem sprva mislila, in hvaležna sem, da je temu tako. Niti minute ne bi izpustila. 

Zmotila sem jo na petkovo dopoldne, medtem ko je šivala krpice za ritko bitjeca, ki je takrat raslo še pod njenim srcem.

“Imam skoraj malo treme. Enim je naravno, da delijo svoje življenje. Jaz pa … Se moram prav potruditi, ne pridem kar spontano do tega. A če se jaz napajam ob drugih, potem … Bo mogoče vseeno komu kaj v korist,” je še rekla, preden sem jo zasula z vprašanji. Telefon je naslonila na šivalni stroj.

“Mislim, da boš v navdih. A začneva?”

“No, dej!”

Kako bi te predstavil tvoj mož? Kaj pa vajini fantje?

Bi morala kar njih vprašati! Rok bi rekel, da sem njegova žena, mama najinim otrokom. Velikokrat meni in drugim pove, da sem lepa. To bi verjetno rekel in to je lepo slišati! Mislim, da bi rekel, da sem pokončna ženska, nekaj v tem smislu. To mu gre gladko z jezika. Fantje pa ne vem. Najbrž bi rekli, da sem njihova mamica, da jih imam rada. 🙂

Kaj ti pomeni beseda dom?

Doma ne povezujem toliko z lokacijo, mogoče tudi zato, ker smo se tolikokrat selili. Dom je moja družina, Rok in fantje, kako smo mi med seboj, naše vzdušje. To je zame dom. Mi je zelo pomemben in se mi zdi vredno potruditi, da se v njem vsi dobro počutimo, da je varen kraj, zatočišče. Vidim pa, da raste želja po domu, ki bi bil lokacijsko bolj definiran. Trenutno tega še ne povezujemo s to hišo, kjer smo. Ampak počasi. Vem pa, da si lahko, kjerkoli smo, naredimo lep dom med sabo.

Si doma bolj žena, mama?

(Smeh.) Oboje. In tudi jaz, kot jaz, kot oseba, Bogomila. Vidim, da ker nam je dom tako pomemben, mora vsak dati sebe vanj. Svojo vlogo vidim predvsem v tem, da poskrbim, da nam je prijetno, da so vsi naši čuti zadovoljeni. To je moja vloga mame in žene. Jaz pa moram biti jaz, potem pa je odvisno kdo je okrog mene. Če so otroci doma, sem bolj mama, ko pride Rok iz službe, se potrudim biti bolj žena. Vsega po malo. 🙂

Da si ti ti: kje iščeš, opaziš lepoto? Kaj te nahrani?

Lepota mi je zelo pomembna. Se mi zdi, da je to zame kot zrak in voda. Je Božji jezik, ki ga zelo enostavno razumem. Opazim jo vsepovsod, moram pa imeti odprte oči zanjo. Včasih pozabim, sicer pa so priložnosti na vsakem koraku. Najbolj očitna mesta so naši odnosi, ljudje, ki me obdajajo, otroci, ki kar žarijo od lepote. In narava, neizčrpen vir lepote. 

Navdihuje, napolnjuje me vse, kar je lepega. Vsakodnevne reči. Npr. zjutraj samo preprost dotik, ko pobožaš topla lička otrok, ko še spijo. Ali pa kakšne ustvarjalne stvari, kakšen klepet, sms, malenkosti …

Imaš tudi krasen cvetlični vrt. Nam lahko zaupaš kdaj in kako je začelo kliti tvoje ustvarjanje?

Cvetlični vrt je ena izmed mojih ljubezni. Vrtiček, ki ga imam tukaj, raste že tretjo sezono. Drugače pa so bile rože vedno nekaj mojega. Preden sem šla v Ljubljano, sem imela v sobi več kot 30 lončnic. Takrat to še sploh ni bilo moderno, kot je danes. 🙂 Potem v študentu ni bilo prostora, ko sva bila z Rokom najemnika, ni bilo polic, prostora … Ko pa smo prišli sem, je bila ena izmed mojih želja, da bi imela eno cvetlično gredico. Potem pa sem ugotovila, da mogoče ne samo eno, ampak kar cel vrt! (Smeh) Mama mi je na začetku ponudila eno gredico, potem pa sem nekako podedovala njivo tete Mimi. Tam je zdaj vrt, ki je namenjen samo rožam. To je najbrž marsikdo težko razumel, meni pa je v veliko veselje. Moj kotiček, kot eno svetišče, kotiček za dušo, kjer se najdem.

Kaj rožnatega pa sanjaš za naprej?

Rože. Sanje gredo v neskončnost. Niham med svojimi sanjami in med tem, kar je realno možno. Je precej drag hobi. To je obširna tema. Lahko se enkrat samo zato dobiva! Letos sem jih posadila toliko, kot jih bom uspela negovati. Za naprej pa … Ali bom morala razširiti ali pa zmanjšati.

Je pa fino, ker imamo tak način življenja, da če ni slabo vreme, so bile rože čas, ki sem si ga vzela malo zase ob tem, da sem bila še vedno prisotna ob otrocih. Vrtiček je ob njihovem peskovniku, ob dvorišču. Ves čas smo bili skupaj, hkrati pa sem imela nekakšen svoj umik. Delo v vrtu je zame kot molitev. Napolnim baterije.

Kaj pa fotografija, video? V postnem času sem z veseljem pričakovala tvoje objave, čudovite so bile. Kaj te je spodbudilo k tvojemu 40 dnevnemu izzivu hvaležnosti?

Fotografija je tudi ena moja ljubezen. Mogoče še bolj kot fotografija celo video. Video je časovno bolj zahteven, pa potem postane kar fotografija. Fotografija ima to moč, da lepoto ohrani, jo zapiše za naprej. Ljudje smo pozabljiva bitja. Zelo rada gledam fotografije. Če jih želiš imeti, jih moraš posledično tudi posneti. Večinoma so na mojih fotografijah ljudje, otroci in kakšni posebni trenutki. To me vleče, to rada počnem. Po drugi strani pa nisem nagnjena k temu, da bi vse delila, to malo držim zase. Težko mi je vse deliti. Vseeno je tudi to okno v naše življenje. Prej se nagibam k temu, da to ostane naše. Velikokrat sem rajši prisotna v trenutku, kot da na telefonu objavljam reči.

Za letošnji post sem si pa zelo želela zadati eno konkretno nalogo, hkrati sem bila že vključena v Fiat90. Nekaj odpovedi je prišlo skupaj s tem, hrani se npr. nisem želela odpovedovati zaradi nosečnosti. Sklenila sem, da naredim nekaj aktivnega. Mi je bilo to še bolj v izziv, je več terjalo od mene. Razmišljala sem, kaj bi to lahko bilo, da bi bilo malo usmerjeno navzven, da bi se preko mene in izbrane aktivnosti ljubezen zlila še na druge. Sama od sebe je prišla ta misel, nisem veliko tuhtala. Povezano je bilo tudi s tem, da se že nekaj časa trudim pisati dnevnik hvaležnosti. Zvezek pa ni tako zavezujoč, je tam samo zame, nihče drug tega ne vidi. Potem sem si rekla: “Kaj če vse to združim, to lepoto, hvaležnost? Mogoče s tem lahko komu polepšam dan, sebe pa izzivam, da res naredim.” S tem namenom je to nastalo.

Potem predvidevam, da si brala Tisoč darov?

Sem, ja. Smeh. Od takrat naprej, to je bilo dve, tri leta nazaj, ko sem jo prebrala, se trudim, da bi pisala dnevnik hvaležnosti. Je fina vaja. Hvaležnost je taka reč, ki ti spremeni pogled na življenje. Priporočam. 🙂

Zveščič ne kliče nikamor, pa sem izkoristila Instagram, je bilo bolj obvezujoče.

Sama sem zelo malo na socialnih omrežjih. Kadar sem, pa velikokrat dobim zase kaj dobrega, lepega, vzpodbudnega. Zato se mi je zdelo: če že kaj objavim, naj bo takšno, da doda nekaj lepega v dan tistemu, ki bo to videl.

Mislim, da se bom še tega lotila. Ena prijateljica mi je pisala, če se mi lahko pridruži, že takoj prvi dan. Tako sva v resnici to počeli dve, čisto od začetka. Se je že razširilo, nenamerno. 🙂 Evo, lahko naslednje leto še ti!

Z veseljem, prav res. Hvala za idejo!

Ko si ravno omenila prijateljico. Kaj pa ti v tem obdobju življenja prinašajo prijateljstva? Kako jih ob družinskem vsakdanu neguješ?

Prijateljstva so mi zelo pomembna. Mogoče mi je bilo na začetku zakona, materinstva malo težko, ker se je moj krog skrčil. Tudi zaradi selitev so se prekinile nekatere dejavnosti, ki smo jih s prijatelji imeli skupaj. Krog se je zožil, tista prijateljstva, ki so ostala, pa so toliko bolj globoka in močna. Precej časa sem se obremenjevala, da ne dam dovolj, si ne vzamem časa, ne negujem zadosti teh odnosov, po drugi strani pa je to tudi ena realnost. V tem obdobju te družina, otroci, mož bolj potrebujejo. Zdaj sem to sprejela, je trenutno pač tak čas. Skrb za prijatelje je včasih vzeta iz trenutka, iz navdiha in takrat zares iskrena. Ko se spomnim na prijateljico in če dobim kakšno idejo, se potrudim, da nekaj konkretno izpeljem v tistem trenutku, če le lahko (sms, klic …). Ko pride res iz srca, takrat je tudi dobro sprejeto. 

Mi pa kavice, sprehod, kakšna skupna maša tako zelo veliko pomenijo! To je hrana za dušo, je res veliko vredno. Sčasoma vidiš, da je to potrebno negovat.

Ko sem bila v porodnišnici s tretjim, sem od tam napisala mail prijateljicam, ker sem vedela, da bomo skupaj živele v istem kraju. Predlagala sem, da bi se dobivale enkrat na mesec zjutraj na kavi. In so se vse odzvale! Poimenovale smo se Očarljive. Takrat smo skupaj brale to knjigo in prišle nekje do treh četrtin. Zdaj pa se dobimo, si med seboj podelimo tisto, kar nam leži na srcu, klepetamo, smo si v oporo. Zdaj nismo več bralni klub, smo samo še očarljive. 🙂  Sobote zjutraj ob sedmih. Je zelo dragoceno.

Morda pa koga spodbudi, da s prijateljicami prične enako. 🙂 Hvala, Bogomila.

Kako sta se spoznala z Rokom?

Uradno, tako da sva se drug drugemu tudi predstavila, je bilo na sestrinem rožanskem plesu, koncertu. Rok je tudi plesal, jaz sem prišla gledat, poslušat. Sledil je piknik in tam sva se srečala, pogovarjala. Zvečer so nama dodelili skupno nalogo. Vsak je pač nekaj počel, da je piknik lepo tekel. Midva sva pripravljala palačinke z jagodami in nutelo. To je bila ena prvih skupnih reči, ki sva jih počela, potem pa so se začele poti vse bolj prepletati. To je bilo v začetku poletja, potem marca naslednje leto sva pa začela hodit. Sem pa ugotovila kasneje, ko sva bila že par, da ga imam na dveh fotografijah že od prej! 🙂 Dejansko sva se že prej srečevala, ne da bi vedela.

O, carsko. Vidiš, vrednost fotografij. 🙂 Kaj pa je bil najboljši doprinos k odnosu, ko sta bila še v spoznavanju? (Mogoče kot nasvet, ki bi ga lahko dala dekletom, ki so še na tej poti.)

Težko bi rekla, da samo ena stvar. Koristno je bilo, da sva si vzela čas, da sva se veliko, veliko pogovarjala in se spoznavala. Veliko časa sva bila drug z drugim, počela stvari skupaj. Zjutraj sva šla vsak na svoj faks, potem pa sva se večkrat skupaj učila v knjižnici. Skavti so bila tudi priložnost, kjer sva sodelovala vsak s svojo skupino. MPP je bil tudi zelo velik in lep del najinega študentskega življenja. Iste vrednote, ki sva jih oba živela, so bile zelo močno vezivo. 

Nisva hitela. Vsak je bil kljub temu še vpet v svoje kroge, v svoje dejavnosti. Nisva samo skupaj tičala. V teh štirih letih in pol skupne hoje preden sva se poročila, sva tudi vsak osebno zelo zrasla. Namenila sva čas razvijanju tistega, kar nama veliko pomeni: gradila prijateljstva, razvijala talente, potenciale … V zakon sva prišla kot bolj zgrajeni osebi.

Kaj pa si o sebi spoznala ob Roku? Ne nujno vezano na ta čas, lahko tudi zdaj, bližje sedanjosti.

Dokler sva hodila, je bil še ta “uau” efekt, zaljubljenost in te reči. Za takrat bi težko rekla, da sem o sebi spoznala kaj zares novega. Večja spoznanja so prišla po poroki. Izpostavila bi dve stvari. V vsakem odnosu, ko postane bolj intenziven, ko mine zaljubljenost, čas, ko je vse samo lepo, se mi zdi, da pride v ospredje tudi to, da vidiš svoje pomanjkljivosti in področja, kjer imaš še priložnost za rast. Zase vem, da sem imela polno aktivnosti, zanimivo življenje. Bila sem zadovoljna s svojim življenjem. Fajn je bilo, a ne? Zdelo se mi je, da imam “poštimane” stvari. (smeh) Potem, ko sva bila nekaj let v zakonu pa … čisto iskreno vidiš, kje vse ti manjka, kje vse bi lahko še napredoval. To so bila prva spoznanja o meni, taka, bolj prelomna. Hkrati pa, kako bi rekla … to ni bilo tako, kot da bi mi Rok ta spoznanja prinesel z neko težo. Ni bilo, da bi mi govoril: “veš, to in to …” Bilo je zelo ljubeznivo in nežno. Bolj kot nekakšno ogledalo, da sem sama v sebi to lahko prepoznavala. 

Potem pa še drugo spoznanje o sebi, ki me še vedno presune. Ko se zaveš vseh teh svojih pomanjkljivosti … Kako me ima Rok vseeno neizmerno rad in kako močno še vedno verjame vame. To me še vedno zares preseneča. Kar ne morem verjeti! V tem smislu pa lahko res čutim Božjo ljubezen, ki se skozi Roka preliva name. To je moje drugo večje spoznanje: da si vreden ljubezni z vsemi temi pomanjkljivostmi vred. Da nisi za na odpad (smeh), ampak si kljub temu lahko ljubljen. To dvoje, recimo. 🙂

Ganljivo, zelo! Kako z možem skrbita za odnos z Bogom, na kakšen način posredujeta vero fantom?

Vera se mi zdi, da je naravno prisotna, oba sva iz vernih družin. Je del najinega življenja od nekdaj. Kako živimo vero družinsko … Dobro, to, da smo nedeljniki. Drugače pa se mi zdi, da je cel dan prepleten z njo. Ne da ves čas molimo in “tko”. 🙂 Zjutraj, ko se usedemo v avto z otroki, na poti v vrtec zmolimo za srečno pot in lep dan, potem skupna večerna molitev. To je tudi nekaj stalnega. Zdaj je z otroki že kar nekaj pogovorov o Bogu. Tako veliki so, posebej prvi, da jih marsikaj zanima in marsikaj vprašajo. Se trudiva, da bi bil odprt pogovor o Bogu, o veri prisoten. Ali pa jim ob kakšnem pripetljaju poveva, npr.: “Jezus nas je pa tako učil … Se ti to, kar si naredil, zdi prav?” Tako nekako vero vpletemo v vsakdanje reči.

“Korona čas” nam je prinesel, da smo prvič poskusili s katehezami za praznike. Veliki teden je bil lepo doživet na ta račun. Smo si praznovanje pripravili doma.

A se mogoče spomniš kakšne prisrčne izjave, česa, kar te je presenetilo?

Oh, tega je ogromno. To je moj vsakdanji kruh. Si jih zapisujem, sicer pozabim. Morala bi iti po njihove dnevnike. Lahko pa povem tako, bolj generalno. Presenetilo me je, kako navdihujoče je zame življenje s fanti, kako me osrečuje! Jaz sem si sebe vedno predstavljala kot mamo punčkam, ne vem zakaj. To sem imela v glavi. Na začetku mi je bil malo šok, ampak … Jaz mislim, da Bog že ve, kaj dela. So carji, ta pravi. Res je lepo življenje z njimi. So me presenetili!

Lepi ste skupaj. Česa si pa želiš za njih tri, no, štiri?

Tako, kot vsi dobronamerni starši, si želim veliko. Da bi imeli lepo življenje. Rada bi, da bi vedno čutili ljubezen, da bi se čutili ljubljene od Boga, od ljudi, ki so okrog njih, da bi tudi sami znali to dajati naprej. Da bi bili pokončni, prijetni fantje. Da bi znali živeti to, kar so, da bi si upali biti to, kar so. Da bi negovali dobre stvari, ki jih imajo v sebi, da bi potem tudi lepšali svet okrog sebe, vsak na svoji poti. Veliko je enih stvari, ki jih želiš za svoje otroke. Da bi bili ljubljeni in da bi znali dajati naprej. 

Krasna popotnica, pravzaprav za vsakogar.

Ja, to bi človek vsakemu privoščil. Čisto vsakemu.

Mislim, da sva nabrali že sedaj nabrali ogromno, ogromno.

Taka težka vprašanja si mi poslala!

Ampak so bila dobra za razmislek! Malo … samoizpraševanja. Ni slabo, res ni slabo!

Oprosti. 🙂 Na tega bi skoraj pozabila. Od majhnih nog in vse do danes: kako se je oblikovala tvoja vera? Bi morda izpostavila kakšne posebne mejnike, dogodke, ki so pomembno vplivali na tvoj odnos z Bogom, ki so prinesli Novost?

To, da si rojen v krščanski družini, da je vera del družine, je velik faktor. Ampak to mi je bilo tako samoumevno, da ne bi iz tega nikdar preraslo v neko živo vero, če bi samo pri tem ostalo. Ne vem, koliko bi to bila živa, dejavna vera. 

V srednji šoli je veliko pripomoglo, da sem šla k animatorjem, pa v pevski zbor že prej, sodelovanje s Stično, duhovne vaje, vodenje marsičesa od naštetega, obisk Taizeja, svetovni dnevi mladih … Veliko stvari sem doživela. Bili so to svetli trenutki, ki so me držali pokonci, ko mi ni bilo tako lahko. Ena zelo pomembna reč je, da sem dobila super družbo, krog ljudi. Nikdar se nisem počutila samo v veri, ker marsikdo, vem, se. 

Z zakonom, materinstvom, selitvami so vse te skupine in dejavnosti odpadle. Potem so bile svetle točke poleg nedeljskih maš in praznikov večeri, ko je Rok vzel v roke kitaro in sva pela stare MPP-jevske pesmi. Taka najina mala slavljenja. To mi je bilo zelo ljubo. 

Kakšna tri leta nazaj sem si pa za Miklavža zaželela Sveto pismo, takšno, po svoji želji. Imela sem namreč željo, da bi vedno več brala tudi Božjo besedo …

Eno veliko praznino sem imela po vseh teh letih. V vseh teh dejavnostih nisem bila več, nedeljske maše z otroki so bolj “tko, tko”, lovljenje po cerkvi in skrb, da ne bi bil preveč moteč. Mislim, saj so na poseben način še vseeno tudi te svete maše doživete. Sem pa kljub temu imela v sebi že eno praznino. Začela sem poslušat par podkastov, ki so mi veliko dali. Spremljala sem še BibleProject. Tam sem potem odkrila koliko v resnici ne vem o veri, pa se imam za verno. Spoznala sem, da tako malo stvari vem o tem, kdo je Bog, kaj On misli o meni, kaj govori, kaj mi ima vsak dan za povedati. Prav tisto … željo po Svetem pismu, po Besedi sem dobila! Je pa to en proces, ki se še dogaja. Poskušam si vzeti čas za branje Božje besede. Tukaj se odpirajo nove stvari in je zelo navdihujoče. Več časa, ko si vzameš za branje, več si ga želiš. Več od tega dobiš. En tak mir se je vame naselil preko prebiranja. Najbolj dragocena so jutra. Preden se karkoli začne, da si vzamem tistih 15 minut. To je … zlata vredno. Pa jaz nisem jutranji tip in si to težko vzamem, ampak se pa res pozna.

Tudi Fiat, ki je bil v postu: to, kar mi je bilo novo, je bila pa molitev rožnega venca, ki se je prej tudi nikoli nisem zares lotila. Še ena zelo lepa novost.

Si jo vzljubila v tem času?

Ja. Pa saj vmes padeš in moraš začet na novo. Zdaj vidim, da je ena rast v tem, da se tukaj šele začenja neka taka prava, res živa vera. Da lahko v resnici nekaj podariš naprej. Prej, sploh v srednji šoli, je bilo mogoče bolj v ospredju doživetje vere, ki je sicer tudi zelo pomembno. To, da pa živi v meni, da pride v moje srce mir, ki ga lahko dam naprej, razlagam otrokom … to pa je prišlo šele zdaj, s prebiranjem Svetega pisma. Mi je žal, da nisem že prej tega nekako dojela, da je to … “ful” pomembna stvar!

Kako pa z možem skrbita za odnos z Njim – kot posameznika, kot zakonca, družina, širše …?

Najin odnos je najbolj viden sad mojega odnosa z Bogom. Družinsko smo se vedno trudili za odnos z Bogom, da pa bi prav midva sama gojila molitev, skupaj, zvečer, to niti ne. Včasih nama skupaj uspe, da zjutraj prebereva Sveto pismo, ampak ni to redna stvar. Letos sva se pa res oba odzvala klicu: jaz za Fiat, Rok za Eksodus. Vsak zase sva se trudila, seveda nepopolno, ker to je čisto preobsežen plan. To, kar sva uspela, se je pa tako zelo poznalo na najinem odnosu. Bližje, kot sva bila Bogu, bližje je bil najin, skupen odnos. Tako lepo obdobje je bilo. Kasneje sva se pogovarjala in nihče od naju ni našel drugega pojasnila za dejstvo, da sva se v tem času občutno bolje razumela. To je bilo edino: da sem se jaz po svoje trudila za Fiat, on za Eksodus. Res so bili vidni rezultati, sadovi molitve.

Hvala za podeljeno. Zdaj pa čisto zares. Tvoja zadnja misel.

Mogoče pa za konec res to, kar mi zadnje dni odmeva, odzvanja … Zaupanje v Božji načrt, ne v lastne načrte. Zaupanje in predajanje. Ni najlažja, je pa bogata in vredna pot. Tega se učim in rodijo se lepi sadovi. Mogoče ne v človeško vrednih, v človeško cenjenih valutah, v valutah tega časa. Poplača se v miru v srcu, v takih stvareh, ki očem niso vidne. Jih pa občutiš in so vredne truda. To mi je izziv zadnje čase. Zaupati, predajati in pustiti, da On dela.

Bogomila, hvala, da si dala svoje besede, misli, doživljanja na razpolago. Res! Vsem šibkostim navkljub. Hvala v imenu bralk vnaprej.

Kaj te še čaka še danes?

Ena video montaža, mogoče bom še kakšno krpico za ritke sešila, kosilo moram skuhati … Take malenkosti, veš … Mine pa ura, dve in zelo hitro cel dan.

Hvala, da si si vzela to uro za najin klepet!

Sem si rekla: “Pa, kako si mene našla!”

Predvsem z željo, da bi klepetala z nekom o življenju. In sem. Hvala ti. 🙂

Janja Zupančič je študentka slovenistike in umetnostne zgodovine. Rada okuša in se veseli lepote odnosov, oblik, barv in velikih malenkosti. Z navdušenjem je družabnica besedam, neustrahljiva sogovornica o marsičem. Z radostjo v čevljih popotnice, ustvarjalke. Želi si biti dom vmesnosti, saj je prepričana, da se najpomembnejše zgodi, medtem ko živimo. @janja313

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